Open Forum

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Part of this is also does your barcode for each address contain the same 4 digit extension or are the barcodes correct so the machines can sort them when scanned. If the barcodes are correct, you may be able to get an exception

------------------------------
Steven Jacobs
Fulfillment Director
American Media, Inc.
New York NY
(212) 339-1907
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2017 01:41 AM
From: Juan Jimenez
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

If you have a good label source to laser rolls and affix to self mailer with a tabber  or buy standard white labels and inkjet. Or you can speak with the district manager explaining the importance of the in home deadline and that you are willing pay the higher NDC rate. You will suggest to provide every postmaster at each DDU a physical copy of the mail piece with galley "list" of correct addresses they should be expecting for routing the mail appropriately to their mail carriers. Good luck JJ

Original Message------

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Oh boy!!  Can s/he readdress by covering old addresses and barcodes with correctly address/barcoded  labels?

------------------------------
Andrea Schwartz
President
New York NY
212-486-7382
ADS Creative & Mailing
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

A MLOCR commingler may be able to assist.  Applying the correct Imb in the lower right will improve the chances of expected delivery.  If there is not a barcode clear zone, many comminglers can label and barcode in line.  Although this solution may have some implications (labeling over important text in the lower right or 2 Imb's on the same mail piece) however, it may be the lesser of 2 evils. Feel free to contact me so I can provide National Association of Presort Mailer (NAPM) members that could help in your area.  Good Luck.

------------------------------
Jamie Freeman
VP & General Manager
TC Delivers-Mail Solutions & Savings
Orlando FL
407-855-8262
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2017 02:47 AM
From: Andrea Schwartz
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Oh boy!!  Can s/he readdress by covering old addresses and barcodes with correctly address/barcoded  labels?

------------------------------
Andrea Schwartz
President
New York NY
212-486-7382
ADS Creative & Mailing

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Original Message------

Oh boy!!  Can s/he readdress by covering old addresses and barcodes with correctly address/barcoded  labels?

------------------------------
Andrea Schwartz
President
New York NY
212-486-7382
ADS Creative & Mailing
------------------------------

​I agree with the others - you need to at least block out / replace the IMb.  Blocking out has other impacts on discount qualification, etc...   So, replacing the IMb is preferred.

In addition to pieces being UAA if the +4 is not valid for a given zip -- you have another issue when the +4 does happen to be a valid +4 for the given ZIP.  To the USPS, those are 100% deliverable addresses.  The occupants of the addresses are probably not the target of the mailing and could end up getting many copies of the same marketing piece.

------------------------------
Adam Collinson
Director of R&D
GrayHair Software, Inc.
Mount Laurel NJ
(856) 727-9372
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Everyone here has good ideas, here is mine.  Run the pieces through your inkjet and use a pattern over the barcode to make it unreadable.  Then give it to a Presort service company as Jamie recommended to spray the correct barcode on the piece. This is the only way to guarantee that USPS will not reject the mail and charge you full rate postage for the piece as they often ignore the extra barcode on the bottom of the piece due to the equipment they run it on.

------------------------------
Dan Goodkind
President
CapStone Technologies, LLC
Lincoln NE
402-880-4673
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Ugh.  I'm with Steve on this one.  If you can co-mingle it, that might work.  You could likely also block out the barcode and mail it non-auto...I think.

Good luck!

------------------------------
Emmet Marshall
President
Mail Advertising Bureau, Inc.
Kent WA
(253) 872-3552
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

First, a little bit of history: I have been involved with sorting systems for over 20 years, most recently as the Director for the sorting division of Bell + Howell (now Fluence). Hopefully this lends some credibility to my response.

My first question is this: where is the current bad barcode located? If it is in the address block then replacement with the proper code can be done. It is called Read and Respray, this tells the sorter to ignore all barcode information on the piece and respray the proper barcode from the address information only. However, there is one caveat: Is there a barcode clear zone on the piece that will accept print and still be legible to the postal service. Standard Barcode Clear Zones are defined differently based on the mail piece category but are available in postal explorer.

If the area is not clear, some sorters possess an inline labeler that will create a clear zone and reprint the proper barcode on the applied label without effecting the rest of the piece.

USPS systems read from the bottom up, this means that the sprayed code from the sorter will take precedent in USPS operations and meets their standards. If you have a copy of the piece and can forward it to me I can be more specific in my response. 

Commingling may even pay for itself inasmuch as a commingler should get about 90% minimum to the SCF and the additional entry level discount would offset any fees for sortation and distribution. Not to be self promoting, but you can have your client call me directly to discuss this if you'd like. 440-725-2205

Hope this helped

------------------------------
Robert Sauer
Strategic Account Manager
Midwest Direct
Cleveland OH
(216) 251-2500 x 4953
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Good morning

I really appreciate all who responded with great ideas of how to solve my client's situation.  I can't thank you enough for the input.

Here's what we are going to do.  Because the bad barcode is in the address block, we will be using a comingler to read the address and spray a correct barcode in the barcode clear zone.  We are lucky as there is only a small code number printed in the clear zone.

Doing this has created another issue.  The mail had already been accepted and verified and was on route to a NDC drop shipment destination when the error was found.  Fortunately we were able to stop the delivery. By using the comingler it appears that we will be paying postage a second time.

To prevent paying twice and because the mail was never delivered to the destination facility and entered into the mail stream, we are asking the entry office to cancel the original transaction and refund the postage funds to the client's permit..  If any of you have experience cancelling a transaction with the USPS, I would like to hear your story.

Thanx again for all you help and may you have a prosperous November.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2017 03:37 PM
From: Robert Sauer
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

First, a little bit of history: I have been involved with sorting systems for over 20 years, most recently as the Director for the sorting division of Bell + Howell (now Fluence). Hopefully this lends some credibility to my response.

My first question is this: where is the current bad barcode located? If it is in the address block then replacement with the proper code can be done. It is called Read and Respray, this tells the sorter to ignore all barcode information on the piece and respray the proper barcode from the address information only. However, there is one caveat: Is there a barcode clear zone on the piece that will accept print and still be legible to the postal service. Standard Barcode Clear Zones are defined differently based on the mail piece category but are available in postal explorer.

If the area is not clear, some sorters possess an inline labeler that will create a clear zone and reprint the proper barcode on the applied label without effecting the rest of the piece.

USPS systems read from the bottom up, this means that the sprayed code from the sorter will take precedent in USPS operations and meets their standards. If you have a copy of the piece and can forward it to me I can be more specific in my response.

Commingling may even pay for itself inasmuch as a commingler should get about 90% minimum to the SCF and the additional entry level discount would offset any fees for sortation and distribution. Not to be self promoting, but you can have your client call me directly to discuss this if you'd like. 440-725-2205

Hope this helped

------------------------------
Robert Sauer
Strategic Account Manager
Midwest Direct
Cleveland OH
(216) 251-2500 x 4953

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

​George -- should not be an issue.

What you need to do is submit the request for refund and as part of the request submit the pallet barcode as evidence the mail was never entered into the mail stream.  They will most likely also check there are no piece or tray scans associated with the refund request but other than that you should have no issue.

Any local issue appeal to the PCSC.  You're not the first requesting this type of refund.

Rose

------------------------------
Rosemary Flanagan
Mgr. Postal Strategies & Logistics
Data-Mail, Inc.
Newington CT
(860) 666-0399
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-01-2017 09:58 AM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Good morning

I really appreciate all who responded with great ideas of how to solve my client's situation.  I can't thank you enough for the input.

Here's what we are going to do.  Because the bad barcode is in the address block, we will be using a comingler to read the address and spray a correct barcode in the barcode clear zone.  We are lucky as there is only a small code number printed in the clear zone.

Doing this has created another issue.  The mail had already been accepted and verified and was on route to a NDC drop shipment destination when the error was found.  Fortunately we were able to stop the delivery. By using the comingler it appears that we will be paying postage a second time.

To prevent paying twice and because the mail was never delivered to the destination facility and entered into the mail stream, we are asking the entry office to cancel the original transaction and refund the postage funds to the client's permit..  If any of you have experience cancelling a transaction with the USPS, I would like to hear your story.

Thanx again for all you help and may you have a prosperous November.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048

Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2017 03:37 PM
From: Robert Sauer
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

First, a little bit of history: I have been involved with sorting systems for over 20 years, most recently as the Director for the sorting division of Bell + Howell (now Fluence). Hopefully this lends some credibility to my response.

My first question is this: where is the current bad barcode located? If it is in the address block then replacement with the proper code can be done. It is called Read and Respray, this tells the sorter to ignore all barcode information on the piece and respray the proper barcode from the address information only. However, there is one caveat: Is there a barcode clear zone on the piece that will accept print and still be legible to the postal service. Standard Barcode Clear Zones are defined differently based on the mail piece category but are available in postal explorer.

If the area is not clear, some sorters possess an inline labeler that will create a clear zone and reprint the proper barcode on the applied label without effecting the rest of the piece.

USPS systems read from the bottom up, this means that the sprayed code from the sorter will take precedent in USPS operations and meets their standards. If you have a copy of the piece and can forward it to me I can be more specific in my response.

Commingling may even pay for itself inasmuch as a commingler should get about 90% minimum to the SCF and the additional entry level discount would offset any fees for sortation and distribution. Not to be self promoting, but you can have your client call me directly to discuss this if you'd like. 440-725-2205

Hope this helped

------------------------------
Robert Sauer
Strategic Account Manager
Midwest Direct
Cleveland OH
(216) 251-2500 x 4953

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------

I would recommend labeling to create a completely empty barcode clear zone. Anything in that area may make the lead to barcode readability failures. This could effect your customer in 2 ways: First, loss of postal discount and second, impacted delivery. Once again, if you have a sample I can be more specific,
Bob

------------------------------
Robert Sauer
Strategic Account Manager
Midwest Direct
Cleveland OH
(216) 251-2500 x 4953
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-01-2017 09:58 AM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Good morning

I really appreciate all who responded with great ideas of how to solve my client's situation.  I can't thank you enough for the input.

Here's what we are going to do.  Because the bad barcode is in the address block, we will be using a comingler to read the address and spray a correct barcode in the barcode clear zone.  We are lucky as there is only a small code number printed in the clear zone.

Doing this has created another issue.  The mail had already been accepted and verified and was on route to a NDC drop shipment destination when the error was found.  Fortunately we were able to stop the delivery. By using the comingler it appears that we will be paying postage a second time.

To prevent paying twice and because the mail was never delivered to the destination facility and entered into the mail stream, we are asking the entry office to cancel the original transaction and refund the postage funds to the client's permit..  If any of you have experience cancelling a transaction with the USPS, I would like to hear your story.

Thanx again for all you help and may you have a prosperous November.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048

Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2017 03:37 PM
From: Robert Sauer
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

First, a little bit of history: I have been involved with sorting systems for over 20 years, most recently as the Director for the sorting division of Bell + Howell (now Fluence). Hopefully this lends some credibility to my response.

My first question is this: where is the current bad barcode located? If it is in the address block then replacement with the proper code can be done. It is called Read and Respray, this tells the sorter to ignore all barcode information on the piece and respray the proper barcode from the address information only. However, there is one caveat: Is there a barcode clear zone on the piece that will accept print and still be legible to the postal service. Standard Barcode Clear Zones are defined differently based on the mail piece category but are available in postal explorer.

If the area is not clear, some sorters possess an inline labeler that will create a clear zone and reprint the proper barcode on the applied label without effecting the rest of the piece.

USPS systems read from the bottom up, this means that the sprayed code from the sorter will take precedent in USPS operations and meets their standards. If you have a copy of the piece and can forward it to me I can be more specific in my response.

Commingling may even pay for itself inasmuch as a commingler should get about 90% minimum to the SCF and the additional entry level discount would offset any fees for sortation and distribution. Not to be self promoting, but you can have your client call me directly to discuss this if you'd like. 440-725-2205

Hope this helped

------------------------------
Robert Sauer
Strategic Account Manager
Midwest Direct
Cleveland OH
(216) 251-2500 x 4953

Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2017 07:11 PM
From: George Heinrich
Subject: I need your opinion ASAP

Hello everyone

One of my clients has a crisis situation and I need some other opinions on the situation.

They have about 300,000 automation rate pieces that all have the correct addresses printed on the lettersize piece, however all the pieces have the same plus4 printed on the piece, and in the IMb.

My question is how do you think the USPS will handle this situation.  My client is asking if I think the pieces will still get delivered and I'm not able to give them a firm answer.

This mail is due to be delivered to the NDC about 400 miles away from them, so it's not a matter of just going down to the PO and picking it up.

Thanx in advance for your thoughts.

GPH

------------------------------
George Heinrich
Idealliance Consultant & Trainer
The Postal Professor
Parker CO
303-325-3048
------------------------------