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"Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

  • 1.  "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 12 days ago
      |   view attached
    Just wanted to drop a note with regards to dedicated non-ICC RIPs like GMG.
    Had the chance, earlier this week, to work on a Windows Colorburst v10 RIP to create a GRACoL2006_C1 proof on Epson Standard Proofing 240 media, for an Epson 7890 printer. It worked like a charm.

    I wasn't sure the accuracy would be as "good" as out on a dedicated RIP but, that's not what happened.
    As you can see from the attached report, the resulting proof would pass all IDEAlliance requirements with "flying colors".

    FWIW, I created both the Source and Destination ICC profiles with Large tables using i1Profiler.
    I used IT874 charts for characterization which I measured with a Minolta FD-9 in M0 mode.

    (No difference whatsoever between M0 and M1 and M2 on this substrate)

    If anyone has CIE Lab measurements for this paper, could you please share them here?

    The CIE Lab I got is : 94.05 0.21 -1.64.

    During the Ryerson G7 Training in Toronto, in May, the same Epson media was used in class to demonstrate G7 concepts.
    The CIE Lab value we got then, off a P2P51, measured on an iSis was : 94.10 -0.42 -1.76.
    Then, when we got to simulate GRACoL2013 Rel, the iSis (2?) gave us 93.85 -0.09 -1.35.

    According to Epson, this media is "GRACoL certified" with a CIE Lab value of 95 0 -2 but I suspect the actual measurement is tad lower than what they have on their web site.

    (https://epson.com/For-Work/Paper/Pro-Imaging/Standard-Proofing-Paper-(240)/m/S045112)

    Still, I found it is a great media for 2006_C1 proofing.

    Just curious, what do you use for proofing 2013?

    ------------------------------
    Roger Breton G7 Expert
    Graxx Inc.
    Laval QC
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 11 days ago

    That is the paper we are using on an Epson P-7000 with an EFI Fiery RIP. Our other proofers run on ORIS. We are getting the closest results on the Fiery to G7 Colorspace, passing it easily. We are also adding a G7 curve after the linearization but before we make the output profile. We are getting excellent results with that.

     

     

    Mike Todryk | Color Technical Specialist

    IWCO Direct | iwco.com

    O: 952-470-5659 | C: 952-797-3940

    idealliance_certificatebadge_G7expert_80x80_web idealliance_certbadge_G7mastercolorspace_qf_80x80web idealliance_seal_cmp_80x80_web

     

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  • 3.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 11 days ago
    Are you at liberty to share what instruments you use to make your measuremens with?
    And what kind of CIE Lab values you get on this substrate? By any chance?

    ------------------------------
    Roger Breton G7 Expert
    Graxx Inc.
    Laval QC
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 11 days ago
      |   view attached

    We do the EFI Fiery calibration with the Spectroproofer on the printer. We read in the P2P for G7 calibration with either an FD-9 or our iO table, usually the FD-9. Same with the TC1617 that we use for substrate profiling. Gives us a wicked match on the G7 grays.

    The CIE Lab values I'm getting for the substrate is L: 94.03 a: -0.1 b: -1.01; M0.

    We measure a TC1617 weekly on all of our proofers to check for G7 Colorspace compliance. I attached the metrics from our last reading.

     

     

    Mike Todryk | Color Technical Specialist

    IWCO Direct | iwco.com

    O: 952-470-5659 | C: 952-797-3940

    idealliance_certificatebadge_G7expert_80x80_web idealliance_certbadge_G7mastercolorspace_qf_80x80web idealliance_seal_cmp_80x80_web

     

    ______________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any files/attachments transmitted, may include confidential and/or proprietary information from IWCO Direct, intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that disclosure, printing, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this electronic information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply message and then delete the electronic message and any files/attachments. ______________________________________________





  • 5.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 10 days ago
    Michael,

    Wow! This is excellent news!I
    Thank you for taking the time to reply.
    I hope you don't mind me further picking your brain....

    The CIE Lab value for the Epson Proofing Standard 240 media you reported above, L: 94.03 a: -0.1 b: -1.01, is that with the Minolta FD-9  or with the Spectroproofer?

    About the Metric from your last readings, is that comparing measurements of the TC1617, from the FD-9, presumably, to the GRACoL2006_C1 dataset directly?

    Finally, I'm considering a Fiery RIP for my own work, to drive my lowly P-5000, would you know the version of your EFI Fiery RIP.?

    ------------------------------
    Roger Breton G7 Expert
    Graxx Inc.
    Laval QC
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 10 days ago
    The white point is from the FD-9. We check all of our measurement devices in Maxwell monthly for accuracy. We proof to GRACoL 2013 (CRPC6). Metrics were compared to that. I can check for sure on Monday what version of Fiery XF, but it's the latest one
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  • 7.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 9 days ago
    Michael,

    "Technically speaking", so you proof GRACoL2013 (CRPC6)?
    The reported White Point measurement  of L: 94.03 a: -0.1 b: -1.01 is the work of the MInolta FD-9?

    Got it!
    Looking frward to your version of the Fiery RIP.
    I bet you also have the Color Manager extension? Or PLug-in or Module, or wahatever they call it?
    That's a few $$ add-on...

    Now, the 1 million dollar question comes.

    I know the numbers coming out of TC1617 proofing can be superlatively good.
    Ultimately, the question is how good your customers are satisfied with the proof-to--final product?
    And I'll bet they are, from all the good practices you integrate.

    But, the Epson Proofing Standard 240 was (still is?) "certified" for GRACoL2006_C1 proofing, while ISO committees were still arguing for a measurement solution for optically brightened papers. Since 2006, IDEAlliance has adopted ISO-13655:2009 series of Mx measuring MOdes, including M0 (Legacy or UV-included), M1 (so-called D50) and M2 (UV-excluded) and M3 (Polarized) "filtering" which yiled different measurements according to the "severity" of the optical brightening of the paper.

    So, GRACoL2006_C1 characterization data was "M0" because that's all there was a t the time.
    But, to my very humble knowledge, GRACoL2013 is supposed to be "M1".

    One of the question I have is what alternate substrate ought to be used for proofing GRACoL2013? Since the White Point has become a little more "b* negative"? I think it has gone from b* = -2.00 (2006) to b* = -4.00 (2013), in an effort to "aligne" with Fogra51, if I'm not mistaking, although I'm told the method by which the dataset has been arrived was not as the result of extensive press testing, as Fogra51 was.

    I hate to have to pay for ORIS or GMG horrendously expensive GRACoL2013 "certified" proofing susbstrate but I'm curious to see how different the resulting colors are on these "true" M1 kind of media.


    ------------------------------
    Roger Breton G7 Expert
    Graxx Inc.
    Laval QC
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: "Dedicated" non-ICC RIPs

    Posted 8 days ago
    So, here is where I tell you that I "technically speaking" break the rules. We still measure everything in M0, mainly because we have a large number of old spot standards that were all measured before M1. It is our goal to try and switch over by the end of the year. So the measurements you saw were M0 comparing to GRACoL. We also proof on the more expensive Oris PearlProof and still get an excellent match between proofs. We have had no complaints from customers or press on our proof on a long time (unless a customer is asking why their US Web Coated SWOP looks washed out on the uncoated proof lol). The Epson seems to be really solid paper. I wouldn't have any issues recommending it. The Oris paper is solid too, just a little pricey.
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