Thank you Mike for the kind words.
Understanding how color management works is such a huge challenge, I can understand why 99.9% of creators seem to not even try, and it would seem reasonable to me for any commercial printer to second guess (or maybe ignore?) what their client provides knowing that it's suspect, at best, under most circumstances. I'm geeky, so I don't mind; many others aren't and just stick with 'this is how we do it.'
Just today I saw a discussion amongst InDesign users regarding when/if to convert from rgb to cmyk. There was the usual mix of just use the default, to just convert at PDF with preserve color, to the most dangerous convert at PDF to preserve color AND don't include the profile. There was no consideration to the value of passing-along profiles, even if the creator doesn't understand them; maybe their printer does, and blindly converting removes a tool that could be used by the printer to create a great piece. It just underscores that there is little understanding in the design/production community.
On the flip side, having worked with many commercial printers in book publishing, marketing materials, and direct mail that the printing companies often do a poor job communicating their needs. Maybe they just gave up (I wouldn't blame them), but maybe they just don't understand it all, either, and we just all get lucky, or we work it out on press, or we just don't know what opportunity we're really missing.
Even with a G7-certified commercial printer we work with frequently has a difficult time sharing how they'd like for us to handle profiles, output intents, etc. They have the internal resources and know-how to be certified, but the communication with the client is difficult.
I truly appreciate the input from everyone on this matter -- there is still much I must learn, and I also have to explain and defend my rationale. When it all blows up I know the fingers will quickly turn toward me. Another day in paradise (I'll be ok -- work with great people!)
If anyone from Idealliance is listening, I'm wondering if a valuable training or forum might be built to bridge the communication between creators and commercial printers. Just an idea I know I'd find valuable.
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Brett Stone
Owner
Yfficient Graphic Design and Marketing
Saint Charles MO
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2019 02:27 AM
From: Mike Strickler
Subject: Color Settings for Adobe Apps: Should Grayscale profile match CMYK profile?
I'm still reeling from the shock from reading that content creator actually understands and cares about this detail. Hat's off to Brett, I say. Surely a sound CM workflow begins with thoughtful selection of working spaces and CM policies. The % dot gain settings for the gray space are certainly archaic at this point and should be replaced with the "gray" adopted from the CMYK working space. Perhaps one day Adobe will put this in the update for North American Prepress and the like. Thanks also to Don for illustrating the consequences of deferring to the default gray. The discussion of the spot color working space is far more fraught, unfortunately.
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Mike Strickler
MSP Graphic Services
Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2019 02:50 PM
From: Brett Stone
Subject: Color Settings for Adobe Apps: Should Grayscale profile match CMYK profile?
I'm a content creator tasked with establishing color profile settings for my employer, as relates to all Adobe CC apps. We regularly provide print-ready PDF to a variety of print providers, including offset, flexo, and digital hybrid.
I've chosen Adobe RGB for our created print-ready RGB images, and selected GRACoL2013-C1 (CGATS21-2 CRPC6) for CMYK.
My question has to do with the setting for grayscale.
The various standard profiles (for example North America General Purpose 2) provided indicate Black default as 20% Dot Gain, and the same for Spot colors.
Wouldn't I want to set my Black profile to match the cmyk profile (in this case it would display as "Black Ink - CGATS21_CRPC6.idd in Photoshop Color Settings) so that this color behaves the same throughout the remainder of the production process? [See attached screen cap for these settings]
In other words, if the black channel in a cmyk image is 50% tint (which passes through into my PDF) wouldn't I want my 50% gray tinted graphic to carry the same profile?
I can understand spot colors playing by the 20% dot gain rule, as those colors could be controlled on press independent of the cmyk. But the black channel is ultimately shared by both cmyk and grayscale images, and when we have cmyk images we are also likely to have gray images in the document, too. Shouldn't their profile settings match?
I'm fully open the idea that I'm thinking too hard about this, but I do want to get it right and not just by flipping a coin for each setting.
Thank you for your input -- it is valued and appreciated.
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Brett Stone
Owner
Yfficient Graphic Design and Marketing
Saint Charles MO
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