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  • 1.  Customer Supplied Proof

    Posted 04-29-2021 12:23 PM
    We recently took a job where the proof was supplied to us by a third party. They said we had to match their proof, which in my experience has never been good. So of course once we were on press the print did not match the proof.

    We use GRACoL 2006 and G7 on all of our press profiles. The proof they supplied said it was from an Epson P9000 with a tag that read "Alpha_Gracol_G7." Now I realize it doesn't mention what version of GRACoL, but does anyone know what "Alpha" could be. I'm just trying to understand why their proof is so far off from our print as I have never seen this before. I could not read their control strip either as the aperture is too big on my eXact. 

    I realize there are a lot of variables here. Thanks in advance.

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    Jesse Pena G7 Professional
    Pre-Press
    M.A.S Industries, Inc.
    Plymouth WI
    (920) 892-7100
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  • 2.  RE: Customer Supplied Proof

    Posted 04-30-2021 08:11 AM
    So many variables. What kind of files did they supply you with? Did you create pdfs, or did they customer?
    Is the customer using a proper color management workflow? In my experience, most designers do not understand color management. Alpha means nothing to me. My first assumption is that the customers proofs are no good. Can you send the customer one of your test forms and have them print it out with the idealliance color bar on it?

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    Todd Keffer
    Color Mangement and Workflow Specialist
    HBP, Inc.
    Hagerstown MD
    (301) 733-2000
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Customer Supplied Proof

    Posted 04-30-2021 10:32 AM
    Hi Jesse.

    What some people decide to call a "proof" may actually be worthless, if made without the due precautions.

    So, rather than take their word for it, one should measure the verification strip and see whether the "proof" is ACTUALLY a PROOF (and exactly for which print condition), as claimed.

    If you don't have a suitable measurement instrument, it would be good to borrow or buy one (an i1iSiS2XL, or an i1Pro, for example), and measure the control strip in M1 inside Curve4. Then it will be clear what print condition is being matched, if any at all (I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it matches none of them).

    "Alpha_Gracol_G7" sounds like a very dubious and poorly-stated "print condition" anyway: no print professional would just ask you to match "GRACoL" or "G7" (the confusion between the two is telling, by the way) without specifying exactly which print condition is to matched that falls under the "GRACoL" classification.

    I would suggest that you stick to the facts as you are able to determine them, and proceed from that. Measure the control strip, see how close the measurements come to any known print condition that would qualify as "GRACoL", then, if there is no match, send a message stating those facts. Pure and simple. No emotions, no frustration, just the facts - as that TV show used to put it.

    Cheers.

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    Marco Ugolini
    Print and Color Specialist, G7 Expert
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Customer Supplied Proof

    Posted 04-30-2021 11:19 AM
    Marco is pretty much spot on. If you have a "proof" without the proper measurable colorbars, then it's not a proof at all. Kind of surpised that the color bars don't fit your eXact. 

    The Alpha_Gracol_G7 sounds like a home made printer profile and not an output destination target. While that may be fine and dandy, it's not enough info to go in. 

    At the end of the day, they client is still expecting the final product to look like their provided print and you will probably end up tweaking the file until you get a reasonable result. Sadly, this happens all too often but we, as print providers, will do what it takes to make our clients happy. Hopefully you can charge them accordingly.

    I also do my best to educate them on what a proper proof is and how important proper lighting is as well (especially when it comes to digital litho presses). I also offer to make the proof myself as I know that it's tied into my printing system pretty well.

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    Brian Tickenoff
    PrePress Manager
    Coyle Reproductions Inc.
    Brea CA
    (866) 269-5373
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Customer Supplied Proof

    Posted 04-30-2021 12:11 PM
    In a perfect world - this is the goal and should be close right? Here is our recent PAIN story. Yes, way too many variables is correct.  Offset- if we change ink or plates it would change print proof match. This is on the print end. Needed to re- calibrated curves every time anything at all changes, and each press prints a little different of course so ...it's not easy.  Then on the proofing end....when ldealliance changed... "never change" is the key they said ? Well they did and OMG that change about 4 years ago... was a nightmare for us.  It threw everything off and we were not even close on print match. For us, it took 1.5 years (not kidding)  and several pro visits $$$ to calibrate curves, and a new proofing machine $$$$ just to get us back to matching the G7 proof.  So today, after all this took place, I would not even entertain matching a proof brought in -- unless and only "if" proof provided matches exact to my proof I would test output.  ​

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    [Terri W.]
    [Beacon Printing]
    [Denver CO]
    [303-922-4384]
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    Original Message