Discussion: View Thread

GMI

  • 1.  GMI

    Posted 08-05-2020 02:43 PM
    Does anyone else print for customers who must submit their work to GMI? We do great with our 4CP curve, but fail on some of the pastel colors. (specifically Pantone 290) we've used ink from 2 different vendors and have the same results. if anyone has any ideas or thoughts I'd love to hear them.

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    Karen Grudzinski G7 Expert
    Multi-Color Corporation
    Oak Creek
    (414) 856-1520
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  • 2.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 02:03 AM
    We use Huber ink. But need to ask for the GMI Blue.  Never had any issues. What substrate is being used?

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    Danial Hahn
    Lean Six Sigma Facilitator N.A.
    Hubergroup USA, Inc.
    Jacksonville
    (850) 736-2033
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  • 3.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 11:18 AM
    Thanks for all the replies.

    the 290 blue is printing as a spot color
    We print on Manchester stock 16pt C1SSBS, sometimes we use stock from sappi but have the same results
    the best delta E we can get is 3.10
    My pressman cleaned the unit the 290 blue is several times throughout the run, he does not have it in the first unit...he has it overprinting 2995 (I don't know if you're familiar with CVS work - they print a screen PMS on a solid PMS - in the case 290 over 2995)

    We have involved the ink company one said they can not hit the color. the second told me that the colors at the top page of the pantone book are hard to hit. His drawdown is ok - its not under a 1.0 but it passes. but when we run its not the same.
    the LAB of the paper is 95, .02, .73

    I will present using a another stock, possibly trying ink from Huber, and doing a test of putting white under the 290 to make it opaque.

    thanks again
    Karen

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    Karen Grudzinski G7 Expert
    Multi-Color Corporation
    Oak Creek
    (414) 856-1520
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  • 4.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 06:42 AM
    In what way does the spot color fail? Delta E, or dot gain?

    Bob Peterson





  • 5.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 09:34 AM
    It fails the Delta E. we can never get it under 2.8. this last run the best he could do was 3.10

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    Karen Grudzinski G7 Expert
    Multi-Color Corporation
    Oak Creek
    (414) 856-1520
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  • 6.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 09:44 AM
    Karen

    You need to get your ink company involved. They need to match the color on the job stock using the same coating or press varnish spec'd on the job. Communicate to them that the Delta E must be under    1.0, preferably .50. Have them provide a proof on the job stock with a print out showing the Delta E.

    Bob Peterson
    Ink Technician
    INX International

    Bob Peterson






  • 7.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 09:48 AM
    Does it fail on the ink draw down swatches made by the ink company? What is the LAB of the substrate? If the substrate is too yellow you will never get the ink to pass.  One solution would be making the ink "opaque".. this would mask the LAB of the substrate. If all of this has already been done, the failure is coming from the press. I can talk you thru this also. 

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 8.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-07-2020 10:32 AM
    You would need to verify The ink company has provided you a draw down in spec. After that it's press condition and stock variation..

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    Danial Hahn
    Lean Six Sigma Facilitator N.A.
    Hubergroup USA, Inc.
    Jacksonville
    (850) 736-2033
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 07:49 AM
    Good morning Karen! Pantone 290 is a very light blue with minimal pigment.
    This color will be heavily influenced by the substrate it’s printed on. Is
    your ink vendor able to supply you a draw down on the substrate used that
    passes standards? If yes the problem is likely cross contamination caused
    by other inks in the press. Pantone 290 should be a 1st down ink to avoid
    contamination. Feel free to contact me to discuss further.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 10.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 07:54 AM
    HI Karen,

    I have assisted many printers with meeting GMI requirements, including four of your company's plants. In addition, GMI (now a division of SGS) is a client. If you give me a call I will be happy to listen.

    Best regards,

    Mike Strickler
    MSP Graphic Services
    707.321.7855

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    Mike Strickler
    MSP Graphic Services
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  • 11.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 09:08 AM
    Hi Karen,

    I've worked with GMI.

    Is your Pantone 290 C a spot color or are you trying to match it with your CMYK?

    If spot, are you receiving draws from your ink manufacturer on the substrate you are printing on?

    With light pastels, is the press unit not adding a contaminant from the previous job?

    What type of stock are you using? Is there an option to coat it first or run white behind it? Does the DeltaE vary when measured between when the job is run and the following day?

    Best regards,

    Craig

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    Craig Maalis
    Color Specialist

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  • 12.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 09:42 AM
      |   view attached
    Hi Karen, so many variables.
    Using pressSIGN, check the Spot-converted-CMYK values in the Single Patches>CMYK window to see if they match, entering the correct the media / profile / Target Standard. Then you'd need to ensure that your printing process can hold the tint percentages specified.
    Example window attached showing for CRPC6 PANTONE 290 is C=26; M/Y/K = 0 giving a ∆E2000 of just 1.5 !
    Based upon this if your C25% is good then you should match the definition of PANTONE 290.
    Screenshot from pressSIGN attached.

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    Philip Binks
    Owner
    Bodoni North America
    Belleville ON
    613-922-6960
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  • 13.  RE: GMI

    Posted 08-06-2020 12:20 PM
    Bob Peterson asked the question that was in my mind: Are you talking about the tints or the solid as well? You mention a curve, so this raises the question. If you fail on the solid it could well be that the transparency of the ink and lightness of the color make a match difficult on your substrate. But your ink vendor should be telling you this and discussing options with you. However, even if the solid is a match the tints may still be off, even if the plate curve is optimal. Are you printing with AM screens? Some pastel tints will not print cleanly enough and short of switching to FM screening (not always an option) nothing can be done short of negotiating a variance with the print buyer or its representative. Of course, we are all guessing as to what's going on, and you'll have to furnish someone competent with some data (and likely some funds to pursue it).

    Mike

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    Mike Strickler
    MSP Graphic Services
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